Longtime Splendid readers may recognize Luna as the subject of our famous "lost" interview -- a conversation with the notoriously prickly Dean Wareham that, against all odds, went exceedingly well...after which we promptly misplaced the recording, which never resurfaced.
Time passed. Luna began a bedouin-like migration from label to label. And finally, after two and a half years, we finally got a chance to put things right. With the release of Luna's sixth album proper, Romantica, the opportunity to interview Wareham arose anew, and we jumped at the chance. Of course, it didn't hurt that we had really enjoyed Romantica -- far more, indeed, than we liked The Days of Our Nights, the subject of the 1999 interview.
It is, therefore, with some pride and a great deal of closure that we present this interview to you. In all honesty, it's nowhere near as good as the 1999 interview, for which we were far more prepared, and which included a lengthy discussion of the post-Opal musical projects of Kendra Smith...but hey, you can't have everything.
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Splendid: Let's get started with Romantica. It seems like a definite change of pace for you, maybe coming off of the Live album. Are you rocking more? Is it a simpler record?
Dean Wareham: I haven't done many interviews yet, so I don't know all the answers to the questions. I don't mean that to sound like a joke. Usually, after I've answered these questions, like, thirty times...
Splendid: You have something ready? Something formulated that you can reel off?
Dean Wareham: Right. Is it rocking more? Let me look at it...
Splendid: Was there a conscious effort?
Dean Wareham: Well, the first three songs kind of rock a little more. I'd say there are four rocking songs on there, and maybe that's two more than we usually have.
Splendid: I guess the disc just took me by surprise, because some of these songs are a lot louder...
Dean Wareham: Some of 'em are more aggressive sounding. Dave Fridmann, who mixed the record, certainly likes to put in some strange and annoying sounds.
Splendid: But not something you actually tried to do, then?
Dean Wareham: No. (He considers this.) No. We never really go in with a plan. Perhaps we're idiots, but we don't. We don't go in and say, "Okay, this record's gonna be all..."
Splendid: Not everybody needs a plan.
Dean Wareham: That's true. The plan is kind of dictated by the songs that work out the best being the ones that go on...
Splendid: Do you usually go into the studio with songs you've been working on for a while?
Dean Wareham: We demo stuff before we go into a studio, because it takes a little of the pressure off, especially for me, and it forces me to write lyrics before I'm in the studio. If we were U2 and we had millions of dollars, we'd probably go and write in the studio. That would be quite a nice luxury.
Splendid: With the meter running, so to speak.
Dean Wareham: Yeah, although that would be kind of an annoying way to work, too.
Splendid: I've heard a lot of bands say that there's only so much time you can spend in the studio before it starts to get a little stifling.
Dean Wareham: Yeah, we'd spend like, a year in there, fooling around...having Brian Eno come in and tell us what chord to play...
Splendid: How long were you in the studio for Romantica?
Dean Wareham: I'd say six weeks. We did it in bits and pieces, except that the mixing was two weeks straight.
Splendid: So that's two weeks straight up at Fridmann's place in the middle of nowhere?
Dean Wareham: That is exactly where it is, nowhere. There's nothing to do. I went and saw -- well, we all went and saw -- Pearl Harbor, the movie.
Splendid: I'm sorry.
Dean Wareham: It was the one Sunday -- the one day off we had. We walked out.
Splendid: Everyone I've talked to about working up there says really odd things about it being in the boondocks, or about being attacked by wild dogs, or stuff like that.
Dean Wareham: I never heard about the wild dogs. I didn't see any wild dogs, and they didn't say "Be careful of the wild dogs." There's not much to do there except play badminton and video games. For a really fun night out, you can go have some chicken wings in town.
Splendid: So a more relaxing environment.
Dean Wareham: Yeah.
AUDIO: Mermaid Eyes
Splendid: You've mentioned that the record was recorded without any sort of plan, so it seems pointless to follow the line of questioning I have written down here, and ask you if Romantica is a simpler album on purpose. However, listening to the record in the context of your last few studio albums, it seems more front -- like it's not as layered.
Dean Wareham: Well, maybe that's true. I think there's a simplicity to it. It doesn't jump around stylistically like The Days of Our Nights did; it seems like it's more of a piece, a little more direct in that respect. And it was done more quickly than the last few records we've made -- not as much agonizing over every single note.
Splendid: Is it easier not to agonize?
Dean Wareham: I don't like recording like that. I don't think there's a point... Certain things you want to agonize over, to make sure they're right, but not everything. The ear doesn't hear everything, so it doesn't all have to be perfect.
Splendid: Do you have more happy accidents while you're recording?
Dean Wareham: I think so. Often your first idea is your best idea. I find that usually, after three or four attempts at something, you start to get worse at it.
Splendid: When did you write these songs? How long did it take?
Dean Wareham: I guess it took about nine months to write them. As we get closer to the recording date it accelerates, but some of the ideas have been sitting around for a long time. Like "Black Postcards" came out of a little demo I did for a Volvo commercial -- I never got the job, but I got that drum machine sound out of it.
Splendid: I was planning to ask about that, because it seemed a little unusual for you.
Dean Wareham: Yeah, they wanted something catchy. And "Mermaid Eyes", that's a song that I've had sitting around for a while...
Splendid: And it fit in well on Romantica?
Dean Wareham: Yeah. And I managed to finish the lyrics, which is more important.
Splendid: Has anyone who's heard the record mentioned -- and maybe this is my imagination, but --
Dean Wareham: (Joking) That's a lie! (Pauses) No, tell me what you were going to say.
Splendid: I was going to say that "Dizzy" bears more than a passing resemblance to Van Halen's "Jump".
Dean Wareham: I don't think I'm familiar with that song. Could you sing it for me?
Splendid: I'd rather not. And trust me, you'd rather I not, too.
Dean Wareham: (Laughing) Yeah, you know what? It does. In the chorus. I stole the melody from Van Halen's "Jump".
Splendid: Deliberately?
Dean Wareham: Yeah.
Splendid: Because you know, no-one in rock 'n' roll history has ever stolen a riff or a chorus before.
Dean Wareham: I think it would be good to have them kind of sue, wouldn't it?
Splendid: All publicity is good publicity, right?
Dean Wareham: I wonder how many notes it is? I should count them up. I don't know how many notes you can have before it's plagiarism.
Splendid: Well, it's not plagiarism if you play it yourself, right?
Dean Wareham: Well, I suppose it can be. John Fogerty got sued for plagiarizing himself. By his record company. He won the case. Saul Zaentz was the guy who ran Credence Clearwater's label -- he's a big music producer, very well-loved in Hollywood, a great, friendly guy, but he sued John Fogerty for plagiarizing himself. Anyway... yes, that melody is taken, and when I sang it, Sean came running in from the other room and said "You can't do that!" And I said "Okay, I'll sing it another way," and I tried it some other ways, and they didn't work as well.
Splendid: Perhaps that's just a testament to the fact that "Jump" is actually good.
Dean Wareham: Yeah, it's probably the only thing...
AUDIO: Dizzy
Splendid: The enduring Van Halen legacy... Is it difficult for you now, after having made as many records as you've made -- you're into double figures now, aren't you?
Dean Wareham: There've been six Luna records and three Galaxie 500, so the next one is double figures.
Splendid: Okay. Even so, you're close. Is it getting harder for you to innovate, or even to find a reason to innovate? Does it get easier?
Dean Wareham: Well, I guess with both Galaxie 500 and Luna, the point never was to innovate and break new sonic boundaries. I think you can be both derivative and interesting at the same time. Look at the Strokes -- I think the Strokes' record is great...
Splendid: ...but there's not a new note on it.
Dean Wareham: Right. But it's still good. Stereolab, too, is a band where you can often hear exactly what the influences are, but they're still good. One of the nice things about being in a band is that you depend on each other for ideas, so it's not all up to me to do everything myself. There's always that fear that you'll run out of stuff. The most difficult part for me is writing lyrics, and that starts to get difficult after you've written, like, 120 songs.
Splendid: Not going back to the same kind of wordplay?
Dean Wareham: Right.
Splendid: Do you have any kind of standards for your lyrics? Do they just need to sound nice?
Dean Wareham: My standards are higher than they used to be, I think. They don't necessarily have to make sense, but I certainly work on them a lot harder now -- partly because I do them on the computer, and I print them out and fix them, and print them and fix them over and over again, whereas in the early days I used to just scratch down a few things on a piece of paper.
Splendid: So would you say you treat them more as literature? With revisions and such?
Dean Wareham: I don't like to sing something that I'm going to be embarrassed by later, so I try and be careful with that. And sometimes I fail.
Splendid: Do you find yourself embarrassed by any of the past Luna songs? Or any of the Galaxie 500 songs?
Dean Wareham: Lyrically, sometimes, yeah. A few songs, like on Pup Tent, there's this song, "The Creeps", that I really don't like. I think we should've just left it off the record.
Splendid: Are there any songs that you change the lyrics to, any Luna songs, or does that level of dislike bump a song out of the set?
Dean Wareham: Yeah, I'd take the song out of the set rather than do that. That's the Beastie Boys -- they do that now, don't they?
Splendid: Revisionist rap?
Dean Wareham: Trying to get a little more PC. Remember when the Beastie Boys had The Prodigy opening for them? The whole flak over "Smack My Bitch Up"?
Splendid: Hard to believe now. Moving on... how has the whole nomadic existence that Luna has led for the last five years, moving from label to label, affected the band?
Dean Wareham: We try not to let it affect us. There's all different kinds of ways you can make records; you can make 'em expensive and you can make 'em cheap. This record was definitely on the cheaper side because we didn't have a label when we made it. We just said, "We don't have a label right now. If we wait 'til we have a label, we could be waiting 12 months and have nothing to show for it." So we borrowed a little bit of money, went into a studio and did it. I'm really glad we did that. I've never really paid attention to what's going on in the music biz while we're making records...
Splendid: Obviously you don't have to be on a label to be functioning as a working band, but the whole "Where's the money coming from" thing is stressful, I'm sure.
Dean Wareham: Yeah, obviously we had that stress. Part of the reason we decided to do a live album was to make some money. But the whole long period where we didn't have a label, we went out and did some shows in support of that live album and we played to more people than we ever had. That was kind of refreshing. And it's nice to have nobody telling you what to do for a change.
Splendid: I know we're not officially talking about Live, but if you don't mind my asking, were you pleasantly surprised by the response it received?
Dean Wareham: Yeah, it seemed to do really well, and it got great press, which was kind of shocking, because that's really the kind of thing that you put out for the fans. I was also pleasantly surprised by how good the record sounded -- I didn't think it would sound as good as it did. Where I'm standing on stage, it often sounds like a mess; who knew that the band sounded good live?
Splendid: I'm sure that after the first few shows, when people weren't throwing things, you picked up on that.
Dean Wareham: Yes.
Splendid: When do you go out on tour for Romantica?
Dean Wareham: Late May, we're starting. May and June in the US, and then I don't know what'll happen beyond that. We'll go to Europe.
Splendid: Is it harder considering a European tour now, considering the political climate we have now?
Dean Wareham: I'm not afraid of Europe. I wouldn't want to play in Afghanistan or Pakistan.
Splendid: I hear they don't have many good venues there. Not anymore.
Dean Wareham: We went to Brazil right after the World Trade Center thing happened. Obviously travel will be a bit more difficult, but they've got the Euro in Europe now, so that'll be one headache gone, having to change your currency every few days. Europe is up and down for us -- some places are great, some are terrible.
Splendid: Will you go back to Brazil?
Dean Wareham: I don't know about going back so quickly. It was certainly fun, but it's a little chaotic down there. A little disorganized.
Splendid: You don't hear about too many bands making it down there.
Dean Wareham: No, not many do, but things are changing. One label, Trauma, is starting to put out a lot of American independent rock. That's a good thing.
Splendid: Do you -- no, that question is stupid, I'm not going to ask it.
Dean Wareham: Did you write it?
Splendid: Yes I did. I have to say that I feel fairly self-conscious talking to you; I feel a little pressed to make certain that my questions are "worthy".
Dean Wareham: No... If they weren't worthy, I wouldn't answer them.
Splendid: And I'll get to that silence when I'm transcribing the recording, and I'll think, "Oh, God, that's where I asked that unworthy question..."
Dean Wareham: I really insulted this journalist -- well, I didn't insult him at all, really, but I thought I did. I was doing this interview a year ago, with this guy in Dallas, and I was just saying to him how sometimes if a journalist is an idiot, they make you sound like an idiot, because they ask you stupid questions and then when they print their interview... It's just easy to do that to someone. And he thought that I was pointedly attacking him, which I wasn't at all. And then the doorbell was ringing and my dog was barking...he thought that I was being rude to him. And he wrote in his piece, "If ever you're in a good mood, just talk to Dean Wareham and he'll put you in your place."
Splendid: Jeez. Nobody thinks about what might be going on on your end of the phone.
Dean Wareham: Right. Generally, if you talk to someone who's never listened to any of your music -- which is sometimes the case when you're talking to a local newspaper -- you can tell.
Splendid: So, do you like the rock and roll? Have you tried any "rapping" at all? Do you know Eminem?
Dean Wareham: Right.
AUDIO: Black Postcards
Splendid: So... I have to say that Romantica is quite a surprise, coming from a band that's six albums into its career. Are you finding new reserves of energy? Has Britta's arrival altered the dynamic?
Dean Wareham: It's good to have turnover. It can be -- as stressful as it was, when Justin left. He did a lot of writing with me as well, and so when he left I was kind of like, "Wow, do I still want to do this?" But he was pretty burnt out on it by the end, and getting a little grumpy. We needed to get someone new in the band who found it all very exciting. You have to see through someone else's eyes sometimes, to get the "Hey, this is fun, playing to a lot of people and almost making a living, sort of making a living playing music." That was invigorating. She was really good in the studio as well. We didn't agonize over this record in the studio, either; we did it in the reasonable amount of time. I don't know why some records turn out well and others don't. If I did, they'd all turn out good. This one, I'm very happy with.
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Splendid: I see you described on a regular basis -- or at least when I come across articles about you, which will probably pick up over the next few months -- as an "elder statesman", at least as pertains to indie rock. You're certainly a credentialed and influential guy in that respect. How do you feel about that?
Dean Wareham: I guess I've just stuck around. I must be an idiot. No... I guess... I meet a lot of people who say that Galaxie 500 was a big influence on them, and then they give me tapes of their band, and they really suck, and I'm like, "Shit, is that my fault?" No. I don't feel that old -- I'm 38.
Splendid: You're not that old.
Dean Wareham: To me the elder statesmen are, like, Bob Dylan.
Splendid: But it's odd to talk to someone who's been actively responsible for nine records of material...
Dean Wareham: That's true. I've made a lot of records. It's unusual for a band to last more than two or three records.
Splendid: And for them still to be good.
Dean Wareham: That's true.
Splendid: The Rolling Stones, for instance.
Dean Wareham: Well, they made at least nine good records... but they haven't made a good record since...
Splendid: 1982?
Dean Wareham: Yeah. So twenty years of making sucky records.
Splendid: And perhaps they're entitled to some of that, but it's still not fair to the rest of us.
Dean Wareham: Hopefully we can age gracefully.
Splendid: Do you have any plans beyond Luna? Any plans to do a(nother) Dean Wareham solo record?
Dean Wareham: I have exactly that plan. I'm going to do that, actually. I have a little time, so I'm going to do an album of cover versions -- quickly. I'll do it a bit in the studio, and I'll do it at home as well. And Sean and Lee have this band, The Weeds of Eden. They've just about finished an album. Sean sings.
Splendid: Hasn't Sean been doing a lot of singing for Luna, live?
Dean Wareham: He's been doing some more -- he's taken over the parts that Justin used to sing. But I guess Britta's doing more.
Splendid: Britta's influence is definitely more obvious -- a female voice in a band that didn't have one.
Dean Wareham: Well, I would pretend to sing like a girl.
Splendid: See, that's more weight off your shoulders.
Dean Wareham: (Laughs) Yeah.
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gangs aft agley, and leaves us nowt but grief and pain for promis'd joy.
[ graphics credits :: header/pulls - george zahora | photos - jason broccardo :: credits graphics ]
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